Hanns Ullrich: History & Juristic Roots of EU Competition Law: Reflections from 60 Years Experience

Prof. Dr. Hanns Ullrich, Max Planck Institute for Innovation and Competition, Munich, former Professor at the Department of Law, European University Institute, Florence.
A Founding Father of ASCOLA. He works continuously on German & EU Competition Law for 70 (!) years. One of the most encyclopaedic minds and one of the deepest juristic voices in EU Competition Law, a longstanding teacher and mentor of many generations of competition law scholars (I have an honour to qualify to this cohort too).
In this new conversation Prof. Hanns Ullrich offers a detailed exposition of the history and evolution of EU Competition Law through the prism of the history of public and private law development and divide (really illuminating and explaining so much about the nature of competition law). 
Talking to Prof. Ullrich is always a pleasure. His analysis is nuanced and scrupulous, his ideas are original and eye-opening, his conclusions are practical and impact-oriented. 
We looked at the past, present and future; we also went beyond antitrust, looking also at how academic life and academic status is changing in the perspective of the last seven decades.
We addressed inter alia the following: 
– Competition and Freedom: freedom of competitors v freedom of counteragents 
– basing on his 70-years experience in and observations of EU & German Competition Law, where are we moving and how would he describe the current trends in the area
– correlation of German, French and Italian competition laws in the first period of European integration 
– theoretical development of EU Competition Law
– impact of Profs. Ernst-Joachim Mestmäcker, Ernst Steindorff and other from this generation of German private law professors 
– evolution of EU Competition Law inspired by private law tradition: what it means and why it matters
– market power (beyond abuse of dominance)
– how economists work with normative (and thus non-quantifiable) criteria 
– polycentricity  
– instrumentalisation of competition policy for the benefits of European competitiveness: a taboo or “just” a hazardous tool?
– Ordoliberalism, Freiburg School: what precisely was their impact on shaping EU competition law 
– the DMA
– the future (and the past) of private enforcement 
– sanctions in private enforcement: from the perspective of a civil lawyer and from the perspective of a competition lawyer
– can we exceed private enforcement even in principle? 
– why pursuing public policy by private enforcement is not an exception but a normal situation 
– when the law is new (e.g. abuse of dominance in the first decades) it may be more prudent to keep it only for public authorities 
– the comprehensive enforcement of Arts 5–7 DMA should get us worried 
– why many established competition lawyers are critical of the DMA
– reflections on the long work at Max Planck Institute for Innovation & Competition and at the EUI
– two types of academics: those working systematically and those responding to the topical issues – why it matters 
– history of ASCOLA
– changing the role and impact of the institution of Professorship in XX & XXI century academia and society 

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The Digital Markets Research Hub is an independent academic initiative aiming at scrutinising the functioning of competition/regulation in digital markets. We host one-to-one interviews with leading policymakers, regulators and practitioners. We also organise online mini-workshops inviting high-profile experts and academics in various fields of digital competition law & policy to discuss the most vibrant issues of the ongoing regulatory reforms in digital markets.
While having our clear normative stand on the matters discussed within the hub, we value different views and invite relevant stakeholders and thinkers representing the whole spectrum of reasonable positions on how to regulate competition in digital markets.
All our materials are available at YouTube channel, which you are very welcome to subscribe to.
The interview is organised & conducted by Prof. Oles Andriychuk, Newcastle Law School, UK