In this episode of The Human Beauty Movement Podcast, Jessica Fern and David Cooley unpack the transformative power of understanding and working through shame, revealing how it can quietly undermine our relationships and sense of self. Guided by Jennifer Norman, the conversation explores the "shame triangle"—an internal pattern of critic, victim, and escaper—and offers hope, practical tools, and new language for transforming shame into self-love and deeper connection. Listeners are invited to reconsider shame not as a flaw, but as a signal pointing to healing, authenticity, and richer connection with themselves and others.
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Timestamps:
00:00 - Welcome: Rethinking Shame as a Path to Healing & Connection
02:16 - Are You Stuck in Shame Loops? Relationship Struggles Decoded
03:33 - Meet Jessica Fern & David Cooley: Pioneers of Relational Repair
05:40 - Why the Shame Triangle Impacts Even the Most Self-Aware
07:06 - The Drama Triangle vs. The Shame Triangle: Everyday Examples
08:11 - The Inner Critic, Victim, and Escaper: Breaking Down Internal Roles
09:03 - How Perfectionism and Numbing Escape Shame
10:06 - What is Internal Family Systems? Understanding Your Many Inner Voices
12:19 - Navigating Conflicting Parts: Self-Acceptance & Emotional Complexity
13:20 - Identifying Parts at Play: The Foundation of the Shame Triangle
13:53 - The Nervous System on Shame: Fight, Flight, and Collapse Explained
16:16 - Transforming the Shame Triangle: Moving Toward Self-Love
17:20 - From Inner Critic to Inner Coach: Tools for Compassionate Change
18:42 - No Bad Parts: Reparenting and Integrating Inner Selves
19:31 - Real-Life Examples: Beauty Shame, Body Image & Family Messages
22:29 - Jennifer’s Journey: From Insecurity to Radical Self-Love
25:01 - David’s Story: Masculinity, Illness, and Redefining Strength
28:23 - Why Shame Cuts Deep: Gender, Identity & Vulnerability
29:11 - Beyond Polyamory: The Shame Triangle for Every Relationship
29:37 - Restorative Justice, Shame, and Breaking the Cycle of Stigma
32:18 - Why Accountability & Repair Require Moving Beyond Shame
33:20 - Navigating Defensive Shame Responses in Loved Ones
36:06 - Loving Without Rescuing: The Fine Line of Support
40:28 - After the Shame Triangle: Clarity, Agency & True Connection
41:20 - Anchoring in Self: Speaking For, Not From, Our Parts
43:29 - How to Access Self: Everyday Practices for Inner Stability
44:40 - What Is Self? Being, Presence & Letting Go of Agenda
45:48 - Reflect & Heal: How Shame Might Be Shaping Your Relationships
47:05 - Beauty, Humanity & Truths: Lightning Round with Jessica & David
48:57 - Radical Truth: Shame Isn’t the Enemy, Disconnection Is
50:49 - Living Present: Healing Begins When We Choose to Stay
Guest Links:
Website: https://www.theazuriteway.com
8 week online course guiding you through the Shame Triangle work: https://the-azurite-way.mykajabi.com/...
https://www.jessicafern.com/
https://www.restorativerelationship.com/
/ jessica-fern-cooley
/ david-cooley-664937127
Song: Focus
Composer: Allerlei Von Nicolai
Website: / allerlei_von_nicolai
License: Creative Commons (BY 3.0) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Music powered by BreakingCopyright: https://breakingcopyright.com
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