Did the 8 Witnesses actually see and handle the golden plates? Ep. 97

In this episode, Dave talks about the experiences of the 8 Witnesses of the Book of Mormon plates. For information on the 3 Witnesses, check out the episodes below.

Transcript and additional notes on our website: https://bit.ly/3lKMf79
Video: Did Martin Harris actually see the golden plates?: https://bit.ly/2QUX8p3
Video: Did David Whitmer actually see the golden plates?: https://bit.ly/3h0IirB
Video: Did Oliver Cowdery actually see the golden plates?: https://bit.ly/3lQHUzw
Quick fact sheet about the witnesses: https://bit.ly/32LrH6j
Richard Lloyd Anderson on the Whitmer family: https://bit.ly/31x7bH4
“Attempts to Redefine the Experience of the Eight Witnesses,” by Richard Lloyd Anderson: https://bit.ly/2ED8MlP
“The Eleven Witnesses,” by Steven C. Harper: https://bit.ly/2YG3vkx
“Evaluating the Book of Mormon witnesses,” by Steven C. Harper: https://bit.ly/2Qtz9wP
Theodore Turley writing about John Whitmer: https://bit.ly/3hrvDix
Biography of John Whitmer via Joseph Smith Papers: https://bit.ly/2QxihoY
Did John Whitmer claim his witness of the plates was supernatural? https://bit.ly/3b6Djoa
I HIGHLY recommend Richard Lloyd Anderson’s book, “Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses,” for anyone looking to learn more about any of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon plates.

-Just as a side-note, in my research I found that there are some critics of Joseph Smith who believe he must have actually discovered authentic ancient plates in the ground. The idea is that Joseph showed those actual plates to the witnesses, and then built a lie around that true artifact. In my opinion, that theory breeds more questions than it resolves, but I found it pretty interesting that the testimony of the witnesses is so convincing that even some skeptics suggest that Joseph actually had obtained ancient plates.

-After their separation from the Church, Hiram Page and John Whitmer got together with David Whitmer (who had also been separated from the Church by that time) and initiated a short-lived “Whitmerite” break-off of the Church. David never joined the body of members of his sect, and thus the group quickly fell apart. David re-initiated the sect in the 1870s. Of course, one of the foundational beliefs of this sect was the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. I can’t find any information on whether Jacob Whitmer joined in on the first attempt to create this sect (he was dead by the time David tried again). It seems Jacob fades into the background and lives out the rest of his life as a farmer and shoe-maker, though his son (John C. Whitmer) became a leader in the Whitmerite sect and told how his father had always stuck to his testimony of the Book of Mormon throughout his life.

-Some people believe all this talk about the witnesses of the plates is irrelevant because Joseph never actually even used the plates during his translation (he translated the record via the Urim and Thummim, and his seer stone). I respectfully disagree. Whether or not the plates actually exist is of paramount importance—even if Joseph didn’t need to consult them during the translation—as the plates constitute an actual artifact corroborating the Book of Mormon story.

-In 1876, a couple of years before his death, John Whitmer wrote to Mark Forscutt: “I have never heard that any of the three, or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon.” -Letter from John Whitmer to Mark Forscutt, 5 March 1876.

-“As to the Book of Mormon, it would be doing injustice to myself, and to the work of God of the last days, to say that I could know a thing to be true in 1830, and know the same thing to be false in 1847.” -Letter of Hiram Page to William E. McLellin, May 30, 1847, Ray County, Mo., cit. Ensign of Liberty 1 (1848):63.

More quotes from the witnesses on our website!

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