De-extincting Woolly Mammoths in Pleistocene Park—with Nikita Zimov & George Church: RCC #73

This is the Reversing Climate Change podcast, brought to you by the Nori carbon removal marketplace.

A significant amount of carbon has been stored in Arctic permafrost for tens of thousands of years. And unless we take radical steps to restore the ecosystem that we destroyed there, the permafrost will melt and release 1400 GT of carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere. This dwarfs the amount humans generate annually and would accelerate climate change on an exponential scale. So, what can we do to reestablish the grasslands and reintroduce the animals that used to dominate the region? And what do we do if the wildlife that supported the ecosystem have since gone extinct? Can we use ancient DNA to create hybrid elephant-mammoths with the potential to thrive there?

Nikita Zimov is the Director of Pleistocene Park, a project in northern Siberia using wild grazing animals to reestablish climate-stabilizing grasslands in the region. The initiative began in 1988, and to date, the 20 km^2 is home to 8 major herbivore species. George Church is a Professor of Genetics at Harvard Medical School and pioneer in the realm of genome sequencing. Through his work with Revive & Restore, George and his team are working to de-extinct the genes of the woolly mammoth to save the Asian elephant from extinction and populate Pleistocene Park.

Today, George and Nikita join Ross and Christophe to share the vision for Pleistocene Park and the ground-breaking work in genome editing that supports the reintroduction of megafauna to the region. Nikita explains why restoring grasslands to the Arctic is crucial in mitigating climate change, and George discusses his work to make elephants compatible with warm and cold temperatures. They also cover the ethical questions regarding genome editing and the worst-case scenarios around restoring the grassland ecosystem in Siberia. Listen in to understand the potential to scale and perhaps replicate Pleistocene Park around the globe and learn how to support George and Nikita’s work to prevent the degradation of permafrost and reverse climate change!

Key Takeaways

[1:31] George’s path to reversing climate change

Fascinated with mammoths as kid (1964 World’s Fair)
Apply next generation sequencing to ancient DNA
Multiple edits to elephant genome, cope w/ new needs
[3:40] The definition of genome sequencing

Ability to read and write DNA
Synthesize or edit to hybrid of ancient + modern species
[4:59] Nikita’s path to reversing climate change

Father’s idea to restore grassland in Arctic
Took over family business
[5:43] The vision for Pleistocene Park

Grasses need animals to compete with shrubs, trees
Bring animals back and mitigate climate change
[8:35] Why grassland is valuable to the Arctic

Current sparse vegetation can’t store much CO2
Restored soil could store 100kg of carbon/m2
Prevent degradation of permafrost
[14:29] Why Pleistocene Park needs megafauna

Trample snow in winter to protect permafrost
Support grass in competing w/ other vegetation
[16:50] George’s work to edit the elephant genome

Done necessary # of edits in pigs, human cells
Nuclear transfer to African elephant eggs or grow embryo in lab
Resistant to herpes, compatible w/ warm + cold temperatures
[19:40] The ethical questions associated with genome editing

Impact on modern species
Ability to reverse changes
[21:30] The groundbreaking nature of George’s work

First time organism depends on functioning of de-extinct genes
Develop cold-resistant elephants (‘elemmoths’)
[22:27] George’s take on what could go wrong

Permafrost melts, release 1400 GT on CO2+ methane
Cold-resistant elephants fail to breed well
[24:35] The opportunities around genome editing with other animals

George’s focus to support endangered species (vs. extinct)
High-quality DNA available from passenger pigeons, aurochs
[26:50] Nikita’s plans to scale Pleistocene Park

Relatively easy to extend 10X (no competing financial interest)
Need to replicate in Alaska, Canada for meaningful impact
[29:25] The Russian government’s position on climate change

Land for Pleistocene Park given tax-free
Shift to accept idea that climate change real
[31:38] The potential for unforeseen consequences at Pleistocene Park

Worst-case scenario to do nothing
Greatest concern = working quickly enough
Trees doomed anyway if permafrost thaws
Ecosystem big enough for migration
[37:47] What’s next for George

Communicate possibility of reversal through film of Woolly
Experiments on ground + in lab
[38:53] What’s next for Nikita

Introduce new animals, extend territory of park
Increase # of herbivores + introduce predators

#PleistocenePark #WoollyMammoths #permafrost #carbonremoval