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Asking Rory Sutherland what actually grows a business…

Most founders get this completely backwards.

They obsess over sales tactics…

And completely neglect marketing.

But the truth is:
Sales and marketing aren’t separate.

They’re one system that feeds your entire business.
→ Marketing pulls attention.
→ Sales converts it.
→ Customer experience keeps them.

We break down how overdelivering in your marketing eliminates most sales objections before they even show up.

Because the reality is:
→ The best marketing manufactures perceived value BEFORE the sale.
→ The best sales process simply monetizes trust already created.
→ And the best retention happens because you delivered real value.

You don't need a 47-step sales funnel.

You need world-class positioning, a clear message, and an offer that solves a real problem.

This episode goes deep on how to:
Create demand BEFORE you ever sell
Build surface area so luck compounds
Make your sales process almost automatic
Retain clients through actual delivery, not promises

This is the game for anyone serious about scaling in 2025.


(0:00) The Psychology of Marketing
(04:18) How to Create Real Value
(09:24) Fame as a Business Lever
(13:40) The Science of Long-Term Marketing
(18:12) Amazon vs Revolut: The Power of Real Customer Service
(23:22) The Ethics of UX: Why Friction Breaks Trust
(27:49) The Power of Transaction Utility
(34:38) How Price Framing Changes Consumer Behavior
(42:44) Should You Offer Guarantees
(46:19) Why Rich People Dress Poorly (And Why It Works)
(50:02) Netflix’s Marketing Breakthrough
(56:00) How to Increase Perceived Value of Products
(58:37) The Role of Marketing in Modern Business