The Problems with Islamic Finance & the Case for Bitcoin with Harris Irfan

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Islamic finance is today a multi-billion-pound industry. The growing Islamic consciousness of Muslims east and west has coincided with a scepticism towards the interest-based capitalist banking system. The financial crisis of 2008 compounded the belief of many Muslims that the global financial system is a gambler's paradise, a house of cards built on foundations that contradicted the certainties that underpin an Islamic economy. For some, Islamic finance is a solution to these ethical dilemmas. Our guest this week is an insider turned sceptic.

Harris Irfan takes on the essential purpose and complexities of Islamic finance and questions whether it has fulfilled its lofty Islamic objectives. Harris is the author of “Heaven’s Bankers: Inside the hidden world of Islamic Finance”, a detailed and insightful book exploring the Islamic finance industry's internal machinations and contentions. He was the co-founder of Deutsche Bank’s world-leading Islamic finance team, served as global head of Islamic finance at Barclays and is widely recognised as one of the world’s leading authorities in the industry.

In this discussion with my co-host Riaz Hasan, he talks candidly about how much Islamic finance depends on a capitalist riba-based architecture. He recalls his part in acquiring funding for the Makkah clock tower, a project he now regrets. This is a fascinating look at the players and motives of an industry. Harris also offers his views on Bitcoin as a more Islamic alternative above the gold standard, traditionally accepted as a stable shariah-based currency.

Harris is an investment banker with a degree in Physics from The University of Oxford and over two decades of experience in Islamic finance in London and the Middle East.

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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 74

00:00 Intro
03:42 How should money be viewed?
06:08 Did money originate as debt?
10:48 The over-financialization of society today
22:20 The birth of the modern Islamic finance industry
31:48 How are Islamic banks capitalized?
37:40 The financing of Safa Tower in Makkah
41:13 How does the lay Muslim navigate the realities of this industry?
48:40 Bitcoin as an alternative currency standard
56:12 Arguments against Bitcoin
01:05:17 Bitcoin and the Islamic economic model